You will see the same names crop up frequently, going back six generations. Cleopatra III was the daughter of a brother and sister, so her grandparents and great-grandparents were the same on both sides. Actively scan device characteristics for identification. Use precise geolocation data.
Select personalised content. Create a personalised content profile. Measure ad performance. Select basic ads. Create a personalised ads profile. Confusing Paeonia for Macedonia and mistaking ex-Yugoslavs for Macedonians intentionally, are anti-Hellenic acts, anti-Western by extension. The President can excuse and absolve himself but his advisors cannot — they committed crimes against the West that are only now, seen for what they are.
Afrocentrists fight to have Western Culture re-labelled African. Turkocentrists fight to have Trojan history re-labelled Turan history. But worst from all of these anti-Hellenic causes, is the fight to have the Wests history start from Karalos Magnos — Charlamagne AD, completely erasing Greek and Latin contributions towards Western Civilizations cultural development. The Western worlds self-styled Guardian in Chief and Chief Protector is focused like a lazer beam on preservation of Western worlds cultural-historical narrative.
Common heritage with clear understanding from whence it began. Western Culture is worth preserving…without it, what do we have, but competing causes trying to erode it! Ancient egyptian people descendend from black african tribes and middle east people. While I agree with Dr. Tarn thought this to be merely a term of abuse signifying her non-Roman status. However, a good look at the ancient evidence reveals that this was likely a racial slur.
Many view this simply as another example of the linguistic versatility given to her by Plutarch. This raises the possibility that Kleopatra may have spent much of her childhood in the ancient Egyptian capital. Finally, there are the two most accepted portrait heads of Kleopatra VII which can be used to illustrate how her face and ethnicity were altered to present a particular message to a particular audience.
It is a typically Middle Eastern type with a full rounded lower half, large eyes, pendulous lower lip, and receding chin. The facially complete Berlin head Hellenizes the same features and thus washes away all traces of the Middle Eastern type.
If indeed Kleopatra was of partly Egyptian descent through her mother, the Berlin sculpture would have served to emphasize her Macedonian-Greek blood and her right to rule as a Ptolemy. There was no need for legitimizing propaganda in that case. The Romans would have had a field day trumpeting that. The Bible is a history of blacks and all you so call scholars know this is true from Adam to Jesus stop the madness Euro- Trash.
You people are notorious for trying to take my ancestors great achievements and over shadow them with ridiculous conclusions based on non circumstantial evidence. So might i proudly as a black man, yes it matters and yes she was of African decent. My people are Native American, and just as America was stolen from us and inhabited by the white man, which eventually evolved mixing of blood, the same occurred in Egypt.
It seems…as I read this…the author is truly stuck on the notion of proving that Cleopatra was not black…the question has always been was she White, Black, Greek or Egyptian …when I hear that question I laugh because as a Black woman I reminisce on my life and how I was always taught about Egypt as if it existed on its on axis or something when In fact Eygpt is African…and how the powers that be have tried to separate Egypt from Africa.
And doing so is like trying to separate Trenton from NJ as if the two exist alone. I have the common sense to know why history has tried to hide the identity of her mother.
Maybe because she was as African Egyptian as my enslaved great great, grandparents, but you decide! I have noticed that race never seems to matter when a noted individual is deemed an ethnicity other than White.
So, when in doubt, the race of the individual defaults to White. If it does not matter, why are the individuals not depicted as as a hue other than White? Why the natural default to White? It is bull when people say race does not matter. In that case, people would say that it is historically inaccurate. Which only goes to show that it definitely matters to those in power. Guess what, it also matters to people who have little representation in history books because people especially young children need to feel as though their ethnicity which is inclusive of culture MATTERS.
All people need to know what role their ancestors played in history. Bottom line, as historians, accuracy matters. Maybe you will believe these credible, White archaeologists. I find it interesting that when white women are always celebrated in this racist country, and the mere fact that Cleopatra was black and considered the most beautiful woman,leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of a biased European society. Egypt was eventually ruled by the Hitites, which were African Americans.
Because racism such a soulish part of this country,you would rather knock of the noses of great Egyptian statues so no one would know they were african,and say that it could not be possible that one of the most beautiful women in the world was African.. I would suggest you johnny come latelys to youtube Dr Ben jochannan and dr Henrik Clarke. This article is trash… Yes it matters…the race and ethnicity of Cleopatra is essential to her legacy. Im guessing whoever wrote this is white.
The tone of this article is exceedingly condescending, and I take issue with much of what was written. However, this statement is ridiculous:. I think this goes to the heart of why your tone and conclusions are so offensive to people.
Your logic is faulty and therefore your conclusions are flawed. I agree that Cleopatra was more than likely of a mixed heritage. So to say that she was part Egyptian but not black is a contradiction. Even the Greeks were a darker skin white people, just look at Greeks today, they are more olive skinned than pale skinned.
Ugh, is this what they are teaching in universities? White people are culture vultures. They have no real culture of their own. What they do have is bits and pieces of what they stole from other races and repackaged as their own. They are still doing it today. If she were mixed you would need a Black American actress to play her. Writer-A little more attention to nuance in the modern political argument goes a long way.
This article has so much racist undertone. This is how I know she was a black women. White peoples own ignorance makes it easy to decipher their bs. Smh so in order for her to black her father had to have slept with a slave? Let them continue living in lala land. The argument that Mr. Roller adopts that the race of the figure does not matter, only their accomplishments, is purely idiotic. Any real historian, or scholar of any sort, is interested in knowing about the subjects of his or her discipline in entirety, not just what they accomplished.
If Mr. Roller were truly interested in Cleopatra, or any other historical figure, with the high-minded ideals that he presumes to find lacking in others, he would care to know her for her accomplishments, for her impact, for her beliefs, AND for her physical characteristics, along with whatever other truths about her could possibly be discovered.
Yet among her many accomplishments, and arguably the one for which she is most commonly known, was her great beauty and, relevant to Mr. That aspect of her accomplishments had real, significant results that greatly influenced world events of her time; certainly Mr. Roller cares about so mightily. Roller thinks that she should be known only for her accomplishments, and having a complete knowledge of her beauty-as-a-tool accomplishment would only naturally involve a strong understanding of her physical appearance, of which her race is most definitely a necessary component.
Bad show, Duane Roller. Your holier-than-thou attitude toward natural curiosity in a historical figure only makes you look the poorer a scholar, and your miserly disapproval of what knowledge others seek out, rather than simply applauding others for seeking knowledge at all, is not even consistent within its own dim and under-considered reasoning.
Yes it does matter. If Cleopatra was colored, and our actors are white, it frickin matters. Cleopatra was a brilliant and amazing woman. Ancient Macedonia was located almost purely in the modern Greek province of Macedonia, the people their spoke Greek, and they were ethnically Greek.
They were slaves or concubines because the Macedonians ruled Egypt as a racist upper class and gave the native Egyptians little control over their own affairs, reducing them to slavery and serfdom. True Macedonians come from the Greek province of Macedonia, which is at the same location as ancient Macedonia.
Copts have no more right to the heritage of ancient Egypt than Muslim Egyptians. Muslim Egyptians and Copts are both descendants of Ancient Egyptians, they just converted to different religions actually Muslim Egyptians converted to Christianity first and then Islam later, Copts never converted to Islam.
I think you should look up the portrait of Cleopatra painted by Michelangelo in she is portrayed as a woman of mixed ethnicity. There has also been research carried out on the skeleton of her mother with results showing the skeleton to be of African decent.
The information is all there you just have to get it from the right sources. Race matters in the case of recognising Cleopatra for her achievements, if she was mixed or of African decent than it portraying her as a white woman would almost seem like an insult or a cover up of a very successful African woman.
Perhaps that is why this topic is extremely controversial…. Look at the images of Nefertiti they show a woman of a much darker complexion similar to the people of East Africa. Egyptian people just became light skinned over the last years!! That is very dumb to think that a Greek was in control of an African Country! Well what makes you think it could happen then!?? Adding to that Greek people came from Africa to thru migration! Know real history!!!! The real history! They really are!
So many more… You have to realize the people with the power had control.. To put out the images that wanted to.. Even the pope admitted to changing faces and images! Since my original comment of October 25, , I have occasionally returned to this site to see if anyone of intelligence and education has contributed anything valuable regarding this most fascinating of historical figures.
The majority of the posts here come from hysterical whiners who just believe what they want to believe no matter what the facts are. I feel sorry for Dr. The was fifty-four years ago. Since then, I continued to read everything in the English language on her that I could lay my hands on.
Most of it was the sort of popular rubbish masking as history that one sees on television today. I learned that I had to go back to the ancient sources which in this case are the histories written by Plutarch, Dio Cassius, Strabo and others. These are the only extant likenesses of her which bear her name. Thus, it is through them that scholars have been able to identify three ancient portrait heads as representing her.
As for the statues in the Egyptian style, there are none that can be definitely assigned to her as none bear her name and distinctive titles. The triple uraeus which one scholar attempted put forward as an attribute unique to Kleopatra VII most likely was utilized to identify powerful queens of the dynasty who bore the title Female Horus.
Two of the cobras represent the traditional title of Lady of the Two Lands while the third is the Eye of Re which adorns the crown of Pharaoh. Other attempts to identify certain Egyptian statues as Kleopatra VII based on style carry little weight as there are not enough Ptolemaic royal statues which have survived nor known find spots to indicate any sort of stylistic development.
I will close by making a statement that will certainly ruffle a lot of feathers. This being that the Afrocentric view of history is as prejudiced and misguided as the Eurocentric one. Kleopatra belongs to all of us regardless of ethnicity because we are one humanity. It sees important to know her ethnicity is important for those who want to show a great black african leader and female and that was in charge of a great african country.
So no it does not take away from her in historical perspective, only enhances it more. If she was black, she should be represented as black. Now let us say this actor plays the role the best and is therefor casted as Caesar or President Lincoln. People would be outraged. Now for historical reasons it is also important to be able to identify figures as Caesar, President Lincoln, and Cleopatra as they really were.
Even if it goes against what we have believed in years. I emphasize African because you seem to think that Egypt is not a part of the continent and more like a small town in Sweden. Let me just touch on the first briefly, because it seems most people know that yes, it matters in many different ways, especially with the extensive white-washing of history to take away our accomplishments.
Now for the second: Egypt is a country in the continent of Africa. Therefore, Egyptian is African. Now, even if she were pure Egyptian, there is a large possibility she would possess a lighter skin tone, as is common in Egyptians. Even if she was mixed with Greek and Egyptian, she would still have a darker-than-Caucasian skin tone.
It would seem logical that she would be the mother, since we have no evidence to the contrary. In short, have evidence of who her mother is, rather than speculation without warrant. I am bewildered by the amount of uneducated posts on this site.
People believe what they wish out of emotion and not fact. The most educated post on this article is from Nick the Greek. His post was factual and correct. Cleopatra was Macedonian Greek. For all you people who believe the Egyptians were not black.
Just Google Ramses 3. And amarna mummies DNA. Ramses e1b1a. You sound like a typical cacausoid trying to explain away the obvious. At a time when many cultures were conquering others, absolutely without a doubt Cleopatra VII would have been concerned about her own culture, ethnicity, and country and homeland…it was what she fought so hard to preserve!
For the record dearest, Egypt is Black Africa and so was Cleopatra! But in case you have lived under a rock, by the standards of your own people…one drop of Black African Negroid Blood makes you Negro!
If you knew history like you claimed ,you would know almost every race was enslaved, some point. She was not European like you like to portray her.
Roller, you are a fool!! The sooner you leave this earth the better off everyone will be. You are a fake historian getting paid as some kind of scholar. You all will answer for your lies and deception!! I would say it does matter. That is a strange thing for a historian to dismiss. Would you accept a black man playing Caesar? Also, that fact that you state almost conclusively that she was NOT black is very questionable. You do realize that Egypt is on a continent mostly filled with people of color?
You do realize that black people have the most varied skin tones and phenotype. For all we know Cleopatra was a woman of color. Also, the Egyptians did not depict themselves as white as we see it today so having a modern white actress play an ancient Egyptian is not accurate in the least the proof is on the walls.
It is disappointing to see the same old inaccuracies being perpetrated by Afrocentricts. The whole idea is based on wild supposition and misinformation. We do know however that she was of Macedonian ancestry and that intermarriage was practiced throughout the reign of the Ptolemies. In Ptolemaic society Native Egyptians were forbidden from holding positions in public office, government and had limited rights.
There were even separate law courts for Native Egyptians and Greco-Egyptians. Coptic Egyptians in particular can trace a direct lineage to the Ancients, linguisticly and culturally. Ignorant people want to turn every human who steps into Egypt into a Sub-Saharan African. I just let the whiners argue about a Macedonian being different from a Greek.
Who cares? Cleopatra was Greek from Macedon, with heritage to match. To know Greeks, is to know their history…. The Greek character having formed over millennia, can be summarized as being multi-layered and multifaceted. Most people would consider Greek peoples as being Mediterranean first and foremost, but there is more. Greeks have always been international peoples since time immemorial.
The Greek Character is multi-layered and multifaceted, drawing in embedded experiences from five different geographical locations. Greece in ancient times could be visualized spanning from the far West of [Iberia] Spain to as far East as [Colchis] Georgia. Oxford, really? Can you not just respect the authority here and commend him for all his hard work and thank him for sharing it? We really need to learn to give credit where credit is due and cease ridicule and reprimand on a whim.
He sees no significance of the white Hollywood industry stealing the greatness of people of color. Roller thinks there is no intended deception in transferring racial truth to gratify Whites. Pro and con but what send to be the focal point is that all that had been discussed took place in the mother land of Africa which is the birth place of humanity. The first law of thermo dynamics is that the hotter can go to the colder but the colder can not go to the hotter.
A philosopher whose name evades me, and I paraphrase, said that by reasoning of infinite regression all things return to its origin. Did they just magically appear within the last years to rule the earth and distort history? If blacks were to assimilate into the world by reasoning of infinite regression all things would return to its origin state which was black.
Because black and white does not beget white but black and white begets black. What about this: Metro Golden Meyer presents an epic film displaying an historical accomplishment of struggles for freedom in the sixties by Dr.
Martin Luther King played by Tom Cruise. Does race matter or just the accomplishment? Do some research on other Pharos and find Ramesesit was pale skin and red hair. Caucasians in fact were native to Northern Africa. Black Africans more comm on in central Africa. Only during a period lasting years did you see Black Nubian who overran Egypt, not the years some claim. Fact is there are no and have never been great black Empires in Africa as some like.
What you never had, some steel. Macedonians and Greeks , who cares? Is that what you idiots got out of this essay. The point was being made that cleopatra likely did not have black African blood. Nobody can say anything these days without people coming out of left field to cry about something, get real.
The Afrocentrists want ancient Cleopatra to be black because they are identity thieves. It appears they love stealing the identity of people using false information in the past and in the present.
They do it with DNA all the time. They and others apparently love this lie. The person is stating that Cleopatra is mixed or mulatto but dismiss entirely the other peoples that pass genetic information. Identity thieves indeed. While I do not know the exact racial profile of Cleopatra no one does , to know how the Egyptians thought about their skin color, just look at their paintings.
The Egyptians identified as brown. In the same paintings, you can see them represent Nubians as black. In fact, they represent themselves in a variety of shades. This includes Nubians who were represented as black who also ruled Egypt for a time. But it also includes many other people. And it includes the people that Egyptians thought of Egyptian, and they were represented as brown.
If you want to know what the ancient Egyptians thought of their skin tone, just look at how ancient Egyptians represented themselves.
That gives you your answer. Whenever we need to assign a skin colour to a person, it almost always is white by default. For example, Jesus has been proved to be of Mediterranean descent and to have facial features and skin colour accordingly, and yet, he is always depicted as a Caucasian even to this day.
These acts give viewers the feeling that the European standard of Caucasian beauty is still considered to be better than and a measuring stick for beauty across all cultures and comes off as xenophobic. The European culture is already infamous for centuries of imperialism and acts of cruelty towards other cultures the imperialism was so far-reaching that most of the world still uses British grammar, with the exception of America.
Racial discrimination is still a problem in this day and age. Antony again met with Cleopatra to obtain funds for his long-delayed military campaign against the kingdom of Parthia. They again became lovers, and Cleopatra gave birth to another son, Ptolemy Philadelphos, in 36 B. In a public celebration in 34 B. In late 32 B. On September 2, 31 B. He fell on his sword, and died just as news arrived that the rumor had been false.
On August 12, 30 B. The means of her death is uncertain, but Plutarch and other writers advanced the theory that she used a poisonous snake known as the asp, a symbol of divine royalty, to commit suicide at age But if you see something that doesn't look right, click here to contact us! Subscribe for fascinating stories connecting the past to the present.
Cleopatra was not Egyptian. After the Egyptian queen and her longtime lover, the Roman general Mark Antony, saw their combined forces decimated in the Battle of Actium in 31 B. Julius Caesar was a renowned general, politician and scholar in ancient Rome who conquered the vast region of Gaul and helped initiate the end of the Roman Republic when he became dictator of the Roman Empire.
Despite his brilliant military prowess, his political skills and his Coins with her portrait show her with manly features and a large, hooked nose, though some historians contend that she intentionally portrayed herself as masculine as a display of strength.
Power grabs and murder plots were as much a Ptolemaic tradition as family marriage, and Cleopatra and her brothers and sisters were no different. Her first sibling-husband, Ptolemy XIII, ran her out of Egypt after she tried to take sole possession of the throne, and the pair later faced off in a civil war.
Cleopatra regained the upper hand by teaming with Julius Caesar , and Ptolemy drowned in the Nile River after being defeated in battle. Following the war, Cleopatra remarried to her younger brother Ptolemy XIV, but she is believed to have had him murdered in a bid to make her son her co-ruler. In 41 B. Cleopatra believed herself to be a living goddess, and she often used clever stagecraft to woo potential allies and reinforce her divine status.
A famous example of her flair for the dramatic came in 48 B.
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